| Thierry |
Posted on 08-19-24, 03:37 pm
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
 Karma: 6288 Posts: 2746/2781 Since: 01-17-13 |
Posted by ItzTacos Posted by Thierry Also, be wary of the "my terms are the only correct ones and the rest is bad" because people will call stuff what they want to call them. It's not a "my terms are the only correct ones and the rest is bad", it's more of a "after working with the game's code for a lot of time, that is one way we ended up to make sense of it". I don't go against people calling stuff the "old way" because the inconsistency is there to begin with and it's hard to get around. The only inconsistency I can think of is people not realizing sprites =/= actors. The rest is just.. names. Also I was warning you solely based on your attitude- you do come on a bit strong. What you say isn't wrong and I can understand the current naming conventions can be a headache from the code side of things. Btw, I'm in favor of "Stage tiles", it sounds fine to me. It's got enough distinction from "map16 tiles" and the like. Posted by ItzTacos Final objective would be having all names to match the codebase so that everythin gmakes sense, however... that is simply something that cannot be easily fixed considering that all of the people that have big knowledge about the game's backend do not have much motivation or time to spend onto fixing the mess that NSMBe is or building a whole new editor for example (at least for the most part). What do you mean by the codebase in this context? The first step would be to make the editor itself reflect the new names, in any case. I don't believe switching them up would be all that hard. Posted by Ndymario Posted by nr00t Probably his way of saying "won't add", but he's too lazy to explain why. Surprising he'd just ghost you like that, that's the sort of thing I'd expect him to do to those he sees as below himself and the other "old staff". To his credit, he has said in DM last November that he is busy rn and plans on reviewing the changes soon :tm:. He's just hard to get ahold of, more than anything. He's probably got too much going on to remember to check his Github account. |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 03:44 pm (rev. 1 by
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 Super KoopaThat MvL Hacker  Karma: 1654 Posts: 809/831 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by Thierry Posted by Ndymario Posted by nr00t Probably his way of saying "won't add", but he's too lazy to explain why. Surprising he'd just ghost you like that, that's the sort of thing I'd expect him to do to those he sees as below himself and the other "old staff". To his credit, he has said in DM last November that he is busy rn and plans on reviewing the changes soon :tm:. He's just hard to get ahold of, more than anything. He's probably got too much going on to remember to check his Github account. He is pretty active on GitHub in general. (No shade intended, I know job related code more important than NSMB lol) _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 03:53 pm (rev. 1 by
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Posted by Thierry
The only inconsistency I can think of is people not realizing sprites =/= actors. The rest is just.. names. Also I was warning you solely based on your attitude- you do come on a bit strong. What you say isn't wrong and I can understand the current naming conventions can be a headache from the code side of things. What do you mean by the codebase in this context? The first step would be to make the editor itself reflect the new names, in any case. I don't believe switching them up would be all that hard. Eh sorry if I sounded harsh but as you figured I do indeed come from big headaches especially when it comes to consistency n stuff. In other words... What I was tryna get through is that everything that is stored in the game's files (and thus that is editable via the editor) reflects some named "entity" in the game's code. The point is, finding a name that fits in the editor is easier to find a name that fits in the codebase, because there are obviously way less possible conflicts; and since the two have to match (otherwise programming/reverse engineering would be horrible), it's important to come up with the names that fit the codebase and then moving them to the editor interface. I guess it makes sense _________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
Ninji
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Posted on 08-19-24, 03:59 pm (rev. 2 by
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Personally I think if the names of things are going to be updated, an updated NSMBe translation needs to be done first to avoid confusing people coming to the wiki with their editor and seeing different names between the two things.
I'd guess US English, French, Latin American Spanish & Brazillian Portuguese to be the main languages spoken by users here, so focus on those localisations first |
Shyguy
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:03 pm
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Definitely, that does come right after deciding the names
_________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:05 pm
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 MoleI do things sometimes  Karma: 983 Posts: 336/361 Since: 08-07-17 |
there are translations of the sprite database (tho theyre probs outdated now), and iirc a japanese translation of the actual editor was made (quite a bit ago tho, for 5.1), but thats all i know of in terms of translations
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| Thierry |
Posted on 08-19-24, 04:22 pm
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
Karma: 6288 Posts: 2747/2781 Since: 01-17-13 |
So long as the old and new names are interchangeable, I don't think there's a major issue. Frankly, you could maybe even make the editor use both based on a toggle (might need tokens within the localization files). Pleases both parties.
Beyond that, in the "documentation" on the board itself (think threads, not so much spritedb) I think it just comes down to not confusing sprites and actors. It should not that complicated, so I don't see why I couldn't do what I'm planning on doing: make a semi-permanent update/summary of all the information that isn't volatile. Actors are in active research by your team, therefore I won't touch on them too much. Instead I would more likely talk about tips and tricks regarding each sprite, intended for beginner use. Leaving the board as an archive as it is now would be odd when you can make it a lot easier to digest by at least summarizing the information and linking relevant threads for easier searching. Posted by ItzTacos - Community contributions to the documentation are too open; people kept adding unexisting settings in the forum's database with no code knowledge or by trial and error and this is not what we want (even Dirbaio back then most likely did trial and error, because originally code modding wasn't as advanced as today). I do think the sprite db as it is now is probably too open, but that's only based on the assumption that we can now delve into the code. It was open specifically because experimentation was needed, hence that was the only way. What was once help might now be interference. It would be good to have a link to the new database alongside the new wiki, though. Archiving the old stuff is one thing, but if you don't properly link the board and the new resources together then it's kind of a pain. |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:30 pm (rev. 1 by
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1654 Posts: 810/831 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by Thierry It would be good to have a link to the new database alongside the new wiki, though. Archiving the old stuff is one thing, but if you don't properly link the board and the new resources together then it's kind of a pain. When it's live, we'll link accordingly _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:34 pm
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Posted by Thierry It would be good to have a link to the new database alongside the new wiki, though. Archiving the old stuff is one thing, but if you don't properly link the board and the new resources together then it's kind of a pain. That will definitely be done once the new database is up and Dirbaio is available, for sure Posted by Thierry It should not that complicated, so I don't see why I couldn't do what I'm planning on doing: make a semi-permanent update/summary of all the information that isn't volatile. Actors are in active research by your team, therefore I won't touch on them too much. Instead I would more likely talk about tips and tricks regarding each sprite, intended for beginner use. Definitely was not trying to stop you on that, my bad if I expressed myself wrongly, I do think you are doing gods work. I was a bit skeptical on the technical side of things, so the sprite database and the naming consistency for example; but for the rest this task is more than necessary to start the process of building the Final Modern Documentation™ Personally, I am still not in favour of keeping the forum open as I think the Discord + Wiki combination is a good compromise in terms of accessibility for the users and documentation (and having two separate "spaces" imo leads to confusion); but that'll be discussed thoroughly after the cleanup so not a big deal for now. _________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
| Thierry |
Posted on 08-19-24, 04:54 pm
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
 Karma: 6288 Posts: 2748/2781 Since: 01-17-13 |
I think the forums could be a bit more restricted in the future to accommodate for the Discord's presence, but once again Discord is not made for archival. On the board, you can present your own hack as well as upload it to the local uploader for ease of use.
You could just as well make wiki pages for each hack instead, but that's very monotone and I would personally would not want to use that. One thing of note is that the board needs to stay open enough for members to be able to inquire about things, notably about outdated stuff such as the outdated ASM hacks- I heard a lot of the ones from Skawo or MeroMero were never ported. Also, I personally would hate running the discord because you cannot really search for past instances of people seeking the same answer you are. Board posts are easier to manage in that regard, anyone can search about problems that were encountered and solved in the past. I'm cleaning up the board because there's too many duplicate threads which makes searching unintuitive, defeating the point. One of my goals is to build up a FAQ based on previously solved inquiries. |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:59 pm
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1654 Posts: 811/831 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by Thierry Also, I personally would hate running the discord because you cannot really search for past instances of people seeking the same answer you are. Board posts are easier to manage in that regard, anyone can search about problems that were encountered and solved in the past. Given that both Discord and HD have a search function, it's roughly equivalent in how effective searching for something is. Discord introduced forum channels awhile back and Central has since implemented them as a help channel. It works basically the same as on the board: you make a post in a channel, and the conversation is self contained in that thread. _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 04:59 pm (rev. 7 by
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Posted by ItzTacos Personally, I am still not in favour of keeping the forum open as I think the Discord + Wiki combination is a good compromise in terms of accessibility for the users and documentation (and having two separate "spaces" imo leads to confusion); but that'll be discussed thoroughly after the cleanup so not a big deal for now. Forcing people into joining a discord server to ask a single question or something is stupid at best, especially with the way discord fucking loves announcing your presence in a server. Oh also the amount people screech about that platform doing this or that (same with plebbit/twatter/all the other ones) could so easily be solved by just not using it and ingraining yourself in their ecosystem so obsessively, but yknow, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Not everyone wants to stick around a server (and end up missing what they originally came for in a busy environment) and also you seem to forget that discord forces you to make another account to bypass its server limit, which often if you're not using a gmail account on android/iOS it gets cocky and starts pestering you for your phone number. Also forums are just plain better for posting about project updates and progress. You make a fancy thread and format it nicely and you can put stuff up to follow through and answer peoples questions. It isnt a mess. Discord formatting is a pain in the arse on the other hand tbh. To use the other thing I said: the signup process here on the other hand is just "type a username and password", and it's also not really bound to any specific else specifically, so cross-community drama being ignited from someone's sheer existence is less likely to happen. Before Discord people didn't always use the same username everywhere after all I could list a bunch of other things but discord's grip on these kind of things is just bleh at best. It's funny how before it people were fully ok with using a combo of forums+IM and then all of a sudden discord happened and the entire culture of the internet became monotone and samey everywhere Anyway why would you bother moderating this place if you want it shutdown Posted by Ndymario Posted by Thierry Also, I personally would hate running the discord because you cannot really search for past instances of people seeking the same answer you are. Board posts are easier to manage in that regard, anyone can search about problems that were encountered and solved in the past. Given that both Discord and HD have a search function, it's roughly equivalent in how effective searching for something is. Discord introduced forum channels awhile back and Central has since implemented them as a help channel. It works basically the same as on the board: you make a post in a channel, and the conversation is self contained in that thread. Tell me how I can google what I'm looking for, without being forced to sign up to the discord. Here I could lurk and collect information, there you can't, you have to join the community to see the info at all |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:07 pm
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1654 Posts: 812/831 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by nr00t Forcing people into joining a discord server to ask a single question or something is stupid at best, especially with the way discord fucking loves announcing your presence in a server. Given that there's not anonymous posting here, you could make the same argument about needing to make an account here to ask a question. Posted by nr00t also you seem to forget that discord forces you to make another account to bypass its server limit, which often if you're not using a gmail account on android/iOS it gets cocky and starts pestering you for your phone number. The limit is 200 iirc. The average person isn't gonna be in that many servers. Posted by nr00t Also forums are just plain better for posting about project updates and progress. We use a forum channel for user projects, so I'd argue it's roughly the same experience. Posted by nr00t it's also not really bound to any specific else specifically, so cross-community drama being ignited from someone's existence is less likely to happen Having a bad reputation is just having a bad reputation. Though I'd agree word travels faster in Discord due to the nature of chat vs forum posting _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:09 pm (rev. 2 by
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Posted by nr00t Anyway why would you bother moderating this place if you want it shutdown ...because I care about this community Been here since late 2019, really late compared to other people out there, but I still contributed to a bunch of things and always helped managing the community when possible (yes, especially on Discord) _________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:13 pm (rev. 2 by
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to ndymario
"anonymous" doesn't necessarily mean something like 4chan - and the name nr00t hardly suggests I'm who I am now, does it? I could have picked literally any name here lol, but you'd be joking if i was going to pick the one I use everywhere else considering my past reputation across these places. the limit is 100 without the evil paywall slop called Nitro. again, sometimes I join places to simply ask a question or whatever, being forced to waste a slot for a server/community I don't actively integrate with is pointless: I tend to dip in and out of things. I know enough people who have a ton of muted servers or are only in some servers for announcements for what it's worth - locking such things to Discord is counterintuitive because these things can be better used on other stuff Discord's forum feature is clunky as shit and is just a glorified text channel. and guess what, it's like those shit forums where you can't view links without logging in. Okay, so say someone gets banned. It's pretty much impossible to make a ban appeal on discord without reregging (in other words, Discord ENCOURAGES reregging), which in itself is a bad thing. Here you just PM the staff or something after some time has passed and there's no "incidents" I guess, which is probably one of the best things in ABXD really... ... hell, KingYoshi was banned for a long time before he was allowed back and eventually became a mod sure, I'm speaking in an overly angry tone but I dunno how else to stress the point. there is still a place for the NSMBHD, even in 2024. (oh and remember when back in 2017 everyone was using Discord to host external images? all those files are fucked now due to a change on their end. Arisotura predicted this would happen IIRC) |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:15 pm (rev. 1 by
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Mole I do things sometimes Karma: 983 Posts: 337/361 Since: 08-07-17 |
gon play devils advocate rq here
Posted by nr00t
Forcing people into joining a discord server to ask a single question or something is stupid at best, especially with the way discord fucking loves announcing your presence in a server. Oh also the amount people screech about that platform doing this or that (same with plebbit/twatter/all the other ones) could so easily be solved by just not using it and ingraining yourself in their ecosystem so obsessively, but yknow, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Not everyone wants to stick around a server (and end up missing what they originally came for in a busy environment) and also you seem to forget that discord forces you to make another account to bypass its server limit, which often if you're not using a gmail account on android/iOS it gets cocky and starts pestering you for your phone number. Also forums are just plain better for posting about project updates and progress. You make a fancy thread and format it nicely and you can put stuff up to follow through and answer peoples questions. It isnt a mess. Discord formatting is a pain in the arse on the other hand tbh. To use the other thing I said: the signup process here on the other hand is just "type a username and password" and it's also not really bound to any specific else specifically, so cross-community drama being ignited from someone's sheer existence is less likely to happen. Before Discord people didn't always use the same username everywhere after all edit: ninji'd big time |
| Thierry |
Posted on 08-19-24, 05:16 pm
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
 Karma: 6288 Posts: 2749/2781 Since: 01-17-13 |
I do relate to the feeling of Discord servers being walled gardens due to the lack of lurking and indexing. They're only partly public.
Also, |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:17 pm (rev. 2 by
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Posted by nr00t Okay, so say someone gets banned. It's pretty much impossible to make a ban appeal on discord without reregging (in other words, Discord ENCOURAGES reregging), which in itself is a bad thing. Here you just PM the staff or something after some time has passed and there's no "incidents" I guess, which is probably one of the best things in ABXD really... DMs exist in discord too, we've been handling unban requests the same exact way there. Posted by Keeper a good wiki negates this =P I definitely agree that Discord is a shitty moneygrabbing platform in some aspects but in terms of the server organization features that it offers there is no modern alternative nowdays. _________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:19 pm (rev. 1 by
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Posted by ItzTacos Posted by nr00t Okay, so say someone gets banned. It's pretty much impossible to make a ban appeal on discord without reregging (in other words, Discord ENCOURAGES reregging), which in itself is a bad thing. Here you just PM the staff or something after some time has passed and there's no "incidents" I guess, which is probably one of the best things in ABXD really... DMs exist in discord too, we've been handling unban requests the same exact way there How are you supposed to contact the staff when you can't see the server and it's unlikely a staff member would just reply to a random friend request? re: the "bad reputation" thing more refers to cancel culture sort of stuff than anything. a lot of people in these kinds of communities tend to lean into radical left politics *shrug* |
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Posted on 08-19-24, 05:23 pm (rev. 1 by
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Mole I do things sometimes Karma: 983 Posts: 338/361 Since: 08-07-17 |
pretty sure some servers have a bot pm you "(x person) banned you from (x place). reason: (x)" but i dont really get banned enough to know so. also the servers im in server staff usually has pms open for anyone because like
theyre staff n they know theyre gonna have to handle ban appeals cause theyre staff |