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Posted on 08-20-24, 08:39 am
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 Fire SnakeEugene  Karma: 3810 Posts: 1137/1156 Since: 11-29-11 |
Ah, so stage objects allow objects to be placed in a level. You could also call them level objects then. (Or you could call levels stages.)
So what are some non-stage actors then? Stuff on the world map I guess? |
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Posted on 08-20-24, 11:13 am (rev. 5 by
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Posted by Thierry I'll try to make whatever documentation I write translate well into the currently used terms. Speaking of, are you all (as in the ppl on the server) roughly in agreement when it comes to this terminology you mentioned? Pretty much everyone who recently started modding this game more on an advanced level did understand the names we gave; although I don't care if people from time to time call them with the old names, I mean, it's understandable anyways and people call them what they want as you said. Currently who has mainly kept track of them is Ed_IT, that is the guy who did the majority of the reverse engineering tasks in the past years, but unfortunately he's been really busy in recent times. This message that i sent some time ago pretty much explains the object/actor mess (i think Keeper already sent it before?): (changed a few things for easier comprehension) Object IDs Object IDs, previously referred to as Class IDs or Actor IDs, are the identifiers of spawnable entities, aka classes that inherit from the class Object and provide their ObjectProfiles (or ActorProfiles) as entries in the process table. When you spawn an Actor, or switch to a Scene, you are spawning an Object identified by its ID: the game will then index into the process table with said ID to gather the ObjectProfile or ActoreProfile structure which provides everything needed for spawning. Stage Object IDs Stage Object IDs, also referred to as Sprite IDs (yes, the ones shown in NSMBe), are the identifiers of the Stage Object, previously known as sprites (absurd name considering "sprite" refers to 2D objects drawn on the screen (OAM) and most NSMB entities are actually 3D). Stage Objects are not Actors, they are abstract entities which are bound to Objects completely independently. When the game loads a stage, it goes through the placed Stage Objects and, to spawn the corresponding Object (aka, the Actor), it goes through yet another table which maps each Stage Object to an Object. Adding up, the structure ObjectInfo should be actually named StageObjectInfo as they are structures only used for when the game spawns the Actor as a placed Stage Object in the level and they have no effect on standard Object spawning. This distinction is clearly evident; you cannot place TitlescreenScene, WMPlayer (worldmap player actor), or even minigame actors on the stage as StageObjects, simply because there is no StageObject that is bound to these Object (as that would be useless, who needs them). But Why? The distinction exists, and nothing can be done about it; the modern names used throughout the NSMB Code Reference (the modern codebase), Ghidra databases and sometime in NSMBe are what they are and, indeed, they can be at times confusing (especially due to Object vs Stage Object). Some day this will be definitely picked up again and changed once and for all, but this is no priority as it seems most people have understood it. What I explained here is really technical but should give an idea of why things are named the way they are; again, they are not the best names, but the best we could come up during the period where only few people were actually into modding this game (me and Ed_IT included). Adding up, some other things as mentioned have gained different names: - Tile behaviours -> Tile types - Spritesets -> Object banks ...and here there are probably way more that Ed_IT remembers and I don't (like soundsets ig), I'll ask him if he can help with this here lol The reason why a bunch of probably good names are locked behind is the complex class hiearchy of the game, this is roughly how it looks excluding a few quirks:  _________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
Ninji
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Posted on 08-20-24, 11:36 pm
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Fire Snake Eugene Karma: 3810 Posts: 1138/1156 Since: 11-29-11 |
Up to this point I thought Actor and Object were synonyms, but if I look at that image of the hierarchy, I seem to have been mistaken.
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Posted on 08-21-24, 01:16 pm
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Also, maybe we should ask the NSMB2 fellas if they want the subforums archived too
_________________________ Youtube - GitHub - NSMB Central |
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Posted on 08-21-24, 01:52 pm (rev. 2 by
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Posted by ItzTacos Also, maybe we should ask the NSMB2 fellas if they want the subforums archived too A better solution IMO would be to throw everything that's already there into an "Other NSMB Games" subforum, add an "NSMB2" tag, and then remove the individual subforums (and move any NSMBW/NSMBU related discussion - if it exists - into the new subforum, too) Since the main focus of the forum is NSMBDS, obviously the remaining subforums will stay, but the other NSMB series games (IIRC) don't even have a forum home, and there's been historically a decent amount of community overlap (mainly due to AcmlmBoard secularism and RVLution/RHCafé/NSMB2Hax back in the day) that could warrant, at the very least, providing some containment zone of sorts confined to a single subforum at the most. Bunging everything related to the other NSMB games in the general ROM hacking forum (which is also extremely low down at the bottom of the forum list, even lower than the two archived offtopic forums) seems a bit weird to me IMO given the name of the site is attractive enough in its own right to post a project thread for instance if they're related to any of the 4 games really. |
Shyguy
| Thierry |
Posted on 08-21-24, 04:36 pm (rev. 1 by Thierry on 08-21-24, 06:21 pm)
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
 Karma: 6341 Posts: 2761/2788 Since: 01-17-13 |
Honestly had no idea if anyone was using the NSMB2 forums anymore. Just like the NSMB ones, they can always be good for posting your hack and resources. Beyond that, I don't know.
Ed: ngl these forums could pretty much stay where they are and it'd make no difference |
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Posted on 08-21-24, 06:00 pm (rev. 4 by
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They've only had one or two posts since sometime last year, AFAIK.
Tearing them down and putting non-NSMBDS series games into their own, singular subforum with far lower priority than the DS game like I said is probably the way to go. Just title it "Other NSMB series games" and put it underneath General ROM hacking. Especially since none of the other games even have forums anymore and haven't for at least five years or so. Given this place is still solely targeting the DS, and it's mostly going to be there just because the communities and games overlap with this one, I doubt it'll somehow become another RVLution lmao. Derpboards are now derpcords anyways these days (guess that's one good thing about that wretched platform). |
| kourtiss |
Posted on 08-22-24, 12:17 pm
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 GoombaYour non-average NSMB Modder  Karma: 3 Posts: 26/27 Since: 01-14-24 |
I'm interested as heck on this bro !!
_________________________ I'm making a hack named Super Mario And The Mythical Realms !! I also need help with it, so check it out and think abt it pls. https://nsmbhd.net/thread/6093-super-mario-and-the-mythical-realms/ |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 04:08 pm (rev. 1 by
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Fire Snake Eugene Karma: 3810 Posts: 1139/1156 Since: 11-29-11 |
Oh, god, no, what is happening here? Thierry, these are some very drastic changes. I hope this is temporary. I don't think you should archive all of these sub-forums. Otherwise you're effectively killing the board. It's a good thing to have separate sections for level editing, graphics stuff etc. There's particularly no point in locking Level Editing, Graphics & Editing and ASM Hacking
What if people have a question about a topic that already has a thread and they can't leave a comment? reply to old threads instead of having to make a new one if it's the same topic they want to ask or say something about. 
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Posted on 08-24-24, 05:30 pm (rev. 1 by
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ASM was (iirc) locked because of what ItzTacos said earlier about much of existing information there more serving as an archive than of the current way of doing things. Perhaps a new subforum for the "new ways" will end up being opened, but who knows. If people bother to port their tutorials fron Discord, that is.
Level editing/gfx editing as their own subforums IMO fail to differentiate between support, tutorials, and freely usable assets unless we enforce tag usage. In some ways they could be useful yes. The abxd tag system is quite limited, though this is something that would be great to overhaul properly (tag searching, as well as searching thread titles per-forum and editing every existing thread to comply, would mitigate this) I guess it's an issue of either "we make things too broadly spread out and it looks inactive at a first glance/confuses newcomers where to post their stuff" or "too tight to the point information is lost in a sea of stuff" |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 07:25 pm
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 Super KoopaThat MvL Hacker  Karma: 1701 Posts: 821/833 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by nr00t If people bother to port their tutorials from Discord, that is. We've been putting tutorials on the new wiki. Until the wiki has a good collection of tutorials, "porting" them over to here isn't really a priority. _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 07:38 pm (rev. 1 by
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 ParatroopaWorking on New Super Mario Bros.: Blasting off Again!  Karma: 167 Posts: 2/144 Since: 08-24-24 |
Posted by KingYoshi (...) you're effectively killing the board. It's a good thing to have separate sections for level editing, graphics stuff etc. There's particularly no point in locking Level Editing, Graphics & Editing and ASM Hacking What if people have a question about a topic that already has a thread and they can't leave a comment? reply to old threads instead of having to make a new one if it's the same topic they want to ask or say something about. Instead of archiving the ASM, graphics etc. forums, therefore closing the threads inside, wouldn't it be better if we'd turn them into subforums of General NSMB Hacking, so that when you click on the General NSMB Hacking link, at the top you'll see ASM, graphics, level editing etc.? Like in NSMB Hacks, where there's a subforum called New hacks. This way, the threads would only have to be moved and can remain open. Same for Featherland - it could be a subforum of General Chat. On SMWCentral they already do this: ASM, graphics, level editing etc. are all subforums of SMW Hacking Help and Forum Games is a subforum of General Chat. |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 08:31 pm (rev. 1 by
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Posted by Ndymario Posted by nr00t If people bother to port their tutorials from Discord, that is. We've been putting tutorials on the new wiki. Until the wiki has a good collection of tutorials, "porting" them over to here isn't really a priority. Why don't you put the wiki in your signature and perhaps find a means of linking to content from there on here? I just did a google and yours is fourth result for "nsmb hacking wiki", behind some random wikia, a site that hasn't been touched since October 2014, and the wiki here. Likewise, "nsmb hacking" returns NSMBHD itself as the first result and I didn't even see your page anywhere there. Backlinks for relevant terms this way actually helps google and the likes. (now I sound like a spambot) Posted by Staryu Trek Posted by KingYoshi (...) you're effectively killing the board. It's a good thing to have separate sections for level editing, graphics stuff etc. There's particularly no point in locking Level Editing, Graphics & Editing and ASM Hacking What if people have a question about a topic that already has a thread and they can't leave a comment? reply to old threads instead of having to make a new one if it's the same topic they want to ask or say something about. Instead of archiving the ASM, graphics etc. forums, therefore closing the threads inside, wouldn't it be better if we'd turn them into subforums of General NSMB Hacking, so that when you click on the Gen. NSMB Hacking link, at the top you'll see ASM, graphics, level editing etc.? Like in NSMB Hacks, where there's a subforum called New Hacks. This way, the threads would only have to be moved and can remain open. Same for Featherland - it could be a subforum of General Chat. On SMWCentral they already do this: ASM, graphics, level editing etc. are all subforums of SMW Hacking Help and Forum Games is a subforum of General Chat. I have the impression they've been "closed until something can be worked out", rather than simply axed for the sakes of it. Having too many sections on a small site like this is more problematic than on a huge one like SMWC. Also, subforums aren't "counted" in the lastpost on the index, which makes it seems less active than it is. Also there's a lack of mod tools to automate merging forums and stuff. SQL commands to do the same thing would also need access to something like adminer. |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 08:54 pm
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Paratroopa Working on New Super Mario Bros.: Blasting off Again! Karma: 167 Posts: 6/144 Since: 08-24-24 |
Posted by nr00t (...)subforums aren't "counted" in the lastpost on the index, which makes it seems less active than it is. Also there's a lack of mod tools to automate merging forums and stuff. The "last post" thingy I know. Don't know anything about the code this board's written in, but I think that'd be easy to fix. Excuse me if it's not. Also, instead of merging the subforums, we could also make new subforums in the aforementioned forums with the same names as the currently-archived forums, i.e. e.g. "NSMB ASM Hacking" and just move the threads currently in the archived forums there, then permanently delete the now-unneeded currently-archived forums. Would be more tedious though. |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 09:01 pm
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1701 Posts: 822/833 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by nr00t Why don't you put the wiki in your signature The new wiki is linked on the front page of the wiki here, which is probably more visible than my profile lol. I could add it for search engine crap tho. Posted by nr00t
I just did a google and yours is fourth result for "nsmb hacking wiki", behind some random wikia, a site that hasn't been touched since October 2014, and the wiki here. Likewise, "nsmb hacking" returns NSMBHD itself as the first result and I didn't even see your page anywhere there. Backlinks for relevant terms this way actually helps google and the likes. Search engine crap is always a pain. I'll play with some of the metadata to see if I can get it to recognize my site more. Posted by nr00t find a means of linking to content from there on here? I'm not seeing the need to copy the info from the new wiki to the old one. That just seems like extra work on maintaining knowledge for the game, which is def something we don't need. Additionally, spending a lot of effort on making plugins without knowing when _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 09:08 pm (rev. 1 by
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In regards to the last paragraph I meant setting up threads to here that effectively work as a way of promoting the new wiki whilst containing useful content.
 Also, a signature link should more than suffice as every thread you've ever posted in would therefore have a (fairly relevant) backlink |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 09:11 pm
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1701 Posts: 823/833 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by nr00t In regards to the last paragraph I meant setting up threads to here that effectively work as a way of promoting the new wiki whilst containing useful content. Ohhh ok, that makes more sense xD. Posted by nr00t Also, a signature link should more than suffice as every thread you've ever posted in would therefore have a (fairly relevant) backlink Fair and valid. Signature updated. _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
| Thierry |
Posted on 08-24-24, 09:13 pm
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この記号は… 解読できないよ…
Karma: 6341 Posts: 2763/2788 Since: 01-17-13 |
Posted by KingYoshi Oh, god, no, what is happening here? Thierry, these are some very drastic changes. I hope this is temporary. I don't think you should archive all of these sub-forums. Otherwise you're effectively killing the board. Please pick an option and stick to it; I'll do what the community wants, and this appeared to be the consensus when I asked. I can undo this, but please settle on something as a group. From what has been suggested in this thread, the community wants for the board to be used solely to: -Upload hacks -Upload resources -Ask generic questions And everything else is replaced with Discord. To that end, less subforums is easier to manage. Again I could just make these forums open while still being in their own little section, but that defeats the point. So I'll ask again- everyone, what do you want the board to be? |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 09:28 pm
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Super Koopa That MvL Hacker Karma: 1701 Posts: 824/833 Since: 04-11-15 |
Posted by KingYoshi I don't think you should archive all of these sub-forums. Otherwise you're effectively killing the board. It's a good thing to have separate sections for level editing, graphics stuff etc. There's particularly no point in locking Level Editing, Graphics & Editing and ASM Hacking Having less forums condenses activity down to the "main topics", which in turn should help the appearance of activity in the long run. Posted by Thierry So I'll ask again- everyone, what do you want the board to be? What is in place now seems (to me) to be the best "middle ground" and seemed like what we agreed to be fair. This is tricky because there's really no pleasing everyone in this (as evident by the conversation that has already happened). _________________________ Here's my MvL Hacking thread Consider joining the NSMB DS Hacking Discord Server! Also, be sure to check out the new wiki! #HakingNoMore |
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Posted on 08-24-24, 09:29 pm
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Fire Snake Eugene Karma: 3810 Posts: 1140/1156 Since: 11-29-11 |
I thought I made my opinion clear, but okay.
I personally don't want to make anything locked behind a Discord server because it isn't as "public" as a board. I think I explained this in an earlier comment. People should be able to just lurk around without the need to make a Discord account first. Threads here are actually public and can be found through Google Search. I disagree with the managing argument because this board is easily enough to manage with the amount of activity and the number of staff we currently have. The original number of subforums was fine. Plus, limiting those defeats the argument we had earlier in favour of keeping the board around, which was that it keeps different topics better-organised than on a Discord server, when you want to search back a certain thread. I don't like the idea of everything ending up in the General NSMB Hacking subforum when that's not necessary. I think the subforums work better as distinctions than those tags. If it were up to me, I wouldn't close anything except for the Community Remix one. |