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Posted on 07-26-16, 04:34 pm
Fire Brother
Eugene

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I have a question regarding English grammar. It's about plurals.

I'm told sometime we never use apostrophes (') in English. But I saw the following phrase: dot the i's and cross the t's. Appearently, you do have to use apostrophes when using single letters. Now I'm wondering how that works with words like 'DS' and 'the seventies'. Do you write '70s' or '70's'? Is it 'DSs' or 'DS's'?

What are the exact rules for these cases? Is there more than one form allowed? If so, which forms are most accepted?
Posted on 07-26-16, 04:43 pm (rev. 1 by  TruelyJohn64 on 07-26-16, 04:46 pm)
(Words)

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Perhaps this will help.

It's summer and I'm not really thinking about these kinds of things right now...
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Posted on 07-26-16, 10:52 pm (rev. 1 by Yami on 07-26-16, 10:52 pm)
(ーωー。)

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Basically: The books' pages show that it's the other book's fault.

Whatever, English has one of the most illogical grammar systems in the world... ( ̄ー ̄)
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Posted on 07-26-16, 11:42 pm
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Posted by Yami
Whatever, English has one of the most illogical grammar systems in the world... ( ̄ー ̄)

Dude.. English is literally like one of the easiest languages to learn in the world. If you really wanna see hardcore and illogical languages, try to learn something like Chinese, Russian, Arabic, or Latin.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 12:13 am
(Words)

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Posted by Yami
Whatever, English has one of the most illogical grammar systems in the world... ( ̄ー ̄)

Dude.. English is literally like one of the easiest languages to learn in the world. If you really wanna see hardcore and illogical languages, try to learn something like Chinese, Russian, Arabic, or Latin.

What did anything that Yami have to do with learning languages...? Maybe I read it wrong or something but when it comes down it English makes no sense (What I believe what Yami said).

Like, think about it, why do pony and bologna rhyme? Or why the past tense of read is read? Weird stuff.

Posted by KingYoshi
(...) Now I'm wondering how that works with words like 'DS' and 'the seventies'. Do you write '70s' or '70's'? Is it 'DSs' or 'DS's'?
What are the exact rules for these cases? Is there more than one form allowed? If so, which forms are most accepted?

It would probably be DSes, because "DS's" makes it seem as if it is possessive.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 05:26 am (rev. 3 by  Kankerkoekjesdief on 07-27-16, 05:29 am)
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Posted by TruelyJohn64
What did anything that Yami have to do with learning languages...? Maybe I read it wrong or something but when it comes down it English makes no sense (What I believe what Yami said).

Like, think about it, why do pony and bologna rhyme? Or why the past tense of read is read? Weird stuff.

Of course, English has its mysterious weirdnesses, but any other language has things like that too.

No doubt, next to one's native language, English is almost for every human being the second easiest language too learn.

(Except for if you're like Russian and you're gonna learn a very similar language like Ukrainian before you start learning English, of course )


Posted by TruelyJohn64
Posted by KingYoshi
(...) Now I'm wondering how that works with words like 'DS' and 'the seventies'. Do you write '70s' or '70's'? Is it 'DSs' or 'DS's'?

It would probably be DSes, because "DS's" makes it seem as if it is possessive.

It's indeed, "DSes", because 's is never used in the first place at all if the singular form of that word already ends with an S by itself.

In the case of "70s" or "70's" I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it was "70s", because I believe to remember that I've learned in school that 's isn't used in plurals at all in English. 's is indeed almost only used possessive in English if I'm correct.

(So if DS was a person you could actually legitimately say "That's DS's DS!" )
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Posted on 07-27-16, 06:03 am
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Posted by Yami
Whatever, English has one of the most illogical grammar systems in the world... ( ̄ー ̄)

Dude.. English is literally like one of the easiest languages to learn in the world. If you really wanna see hardcore and illogical languages, try to learn something like Chinese, Russian, Arabic, or Latin.

First off, I'm a girl, not a dude.

English really is illogical, it doesn't mean it's hard to learn.
Only if you look at pronunciations, the letter "e", to be precise:
It can be pronounced as a “short e” (ĕ or /ɛ/) like in empty.
It can be pronounced as a “long e” (ē or /i/) like in key.
It can be pronounced as a “long a” (ā or /ei/) like in resumé.
It can be pronounced as a “schwa” (/ɘ/) like in taken.
It can be silent (especially at the end of words) like in axe.

Additionally, stuff like "in"/"at"/"on"/etc. is another example on how tricky English can be.
Just ask a random speaker of a Romance or Slavic language, they'll most likely use "in" for everything.

I can't speak for Latin or Arabic, since I've never learnt any of these, but when it comes to Russian and Chinese, they're actually not as hard as you make them seem.
Russian does have a case system, and Chinese does have a tone system, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're hard.
Being a native speaker of Polish, I actually found Russian much easier to learn, than for example, Spanish, because most of Russian concepts are already available in Polish, just a bit simpler.

And thanks to Chinese's tone system, there's much fewer vocabulary to learn, and Chinese's grammar is actually much simpler than English's one.
If I look at your username, you're Dutch, right? Then let's compare it to Dutch.
"Gisteren heb ik gegeten" (Time + verb + subject + completed verb (or however it's called in English)).
"昨天吃" (Zuótiān chī) (Time + verb).

For comparison, in English: "I ate yesterday" (subject + verb + time).
But unlike in Dutch and English, the Chinese verb doesn't change into past tense, because present/past/future/etc. tenses don't exist in Chinese.

So, point proven.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 06:30 am
(Words)

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At least you don't have to deal with (Yes) and si (If) among various other examples. They're so similar that if it's typed in a different font, formatted weirdly, or written with bad hand writing you can't tell the difference.

Posted by KingYoshi
Do you write '70s' or '70's'?

'70s is correct, '70's is incorrect if it not possessive. But feel free to do what ever I don't think anyone will really care unless you messed up the possessive form or something.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 07:08 am (rev. 5 by  KingYoshi on 07-27-16, 07:35 am)
Fire Brother
Eugene

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Wow thanks for all those long answers xD

Anyway, so the only exception to use aposytrophes is in plurals of single letters? (Dot the i's, cros the t's)


I agree every language has its weirdness. But Dutch defenitely is more unlogical than English.

*cough* 't ex-kofschip *cough*

EDIT: Not that German is any better. I mean, you know the English word the, right? In German, they basically split that word up in Der, Die, Das, Den and Dem! :')
Posted on 07-27-16, 08:03 am
Fuzzy
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Huh. In greek there are like 20. Ο, Η, Το, Την, Τησ, Τον, Τουσ, and a bunch more which I can't remember.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 08:13 am


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So, point proven.


You haven't proven anything other than the fact A) you don't recognize the difference between grammar and pronunciation B) the fact that yes, indeed, languages derived from the same base are similar and thus easier to learn to people that speak one and C) Chinese is an incredibly primitive language that substitutes grammar with a billion different writing symbols.

Just ask a random speaker of a Romance or Slavic language, they'll most likely use "in" for everything.


Yes, because they're victims of an extremely shit education system that ends giving you a passing grade for barely scraping by on a final exam so easy it should be an insult to the person taking it.

Posted on 07-27-16, 11:48 am
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Posted by skawo
you don't recognize the difference between grammar and pronunciation

OBJECTION!

I didn't say I was talking about Grammar in the last Post, I was talking about it in the Post before.
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Posted on 07-27-16, 11:55 am (rev. 1 by  skawo on 07-27-16, 11:56 am)


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Well, in that case, you say you've proven your point that english grammar is illogical while giving zero examples of the supposed illogical grammar?
Posted on 07-27-16, 11:57 am
Fuzzy
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Oh no. English grammar is stupidly illogical. As is with every language, really. Why do exceptions even have to exist anyway?
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Posted on 07-27-16, 01:25 pm (rev. 1 by  Kankerkoekjesdief on 07-27-16, 01:28 pm)
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Posted by KingYoshi
*cough* 't ex-kofschip *cough*

Btw, I thought it was called the XTC-fokschaap instead
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